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GOD

AND

GOVERNMENT

DON'T MIX

THERE IS SOMETHING SO DANGEROUS  ABOUT THIS

Of course many people will strongly disagree, and point out that by having people with strong religious convictions in the White House, and in positions of leadership,  brings a moral fiber based on Judeo Christian values etc

THIS IS THE REASON WHY GOD AND GOVERNMENT DO NOT  MIX,  AND WHY THE FOUNDING FATHERS KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING WHEN THEY SEPARATED CHURCH AND STATE.

People who believe as true Christians do, that the most important thing in life is the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ, also believe that in order for that 2nd coming to take place, there must occur (as the Book of Revelation says) a war called Armageddon.

When these people feel that they have been placed in their position to hasten the second coming , you then have religious motivated people calling your sons and daughters into battle.

People who believe deeply that they are bringing war against Satan and that this is Gods will to set the stage for the return of Jesus Christ will make decisions that they feel are based on the will of god.

Imagine young men and women called to battle to have their lives taken for a religious belief that most likely they themselves do not share.

THE MYTHICAL BOOK OF REVELATION

 A book of mythology such as the Book of Revelation, when interpreted literally, becomes a catalyst for fear.

People not only become frightened, and find themselves subjected to bizarre religious feelings.

In addition the very same mythological tales of mind psychology, become the basis for violence and killing upon the planet earth.

The Biblical book of Revelation is Greek mythology.

Greek mythology totally misunderstood by the religious pundits of this era, who use it to frighten and coerce their followers and the rest of us as well.

 THE 10 COMMANDMENTS

People who follow these religious teachers  feel  they should be able to put the 10 commandments on  display in public buildings, return public prayer to schools, as well as implement any other social restrictions that represent their particular religious beliefs.

Let's Consider Posting The Ten Commandments

I do not want to get bogged down in whether the US Constitution forbids displaying this in public places or what is meant by the separation of church and state.

I want to consider the Ten Commandments from the standpoint of our present culture, as opposed to the tribal culture that first instituted them.

Also, my comments are based on these scriptures being taken literally.

1

I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:1-3)

The first point to be considered in posting such a statement as this is that it gives the statement a seal of approval by the government.

Is the statement true?

Acording to the archeology department of the University of Tel Aviv in Israel, under Professor Zeev Herzog, after 200 years of serious archeological investigation, the findings are that the Biblical exodus from Egypt never happened.

The website religioustolerance.org makes this comment.

The first commandment requires that no God other the Yahweh is to be worshipped.

This is in open conflict with the"first freedom" in the US and Canada, which is religious freedom.

2

"You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I The Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate Me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love Me and keep My Commandments."

A graven image is a statue.

 A likeness can be a painting or a drawing.

Almost every religious group we have in this country has statues or paintings of one kind or another.

Does the government  agree that religious groups must destroy all of those things?

The website religioustolerance.org makes this comment.

The second commandment interpreted literally, punishes a person's children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and perhaps even great great grandchildren if the person sinned by serving other Gods.

Spreading the responsibility for one person's sin onto innocent descendents was common in the ancient Middle East.

 In our present culture punishing innocent children is considered a seriously immoral act.

Do we want to publish such a declaration with the approval of the government that innocent children of people who violate this religious commandment should be punished?

3.

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.

What does that mean?

The truth is nobody knows.

 Does it mean you can't say "for Gods sake", or "Jesus Christ".

Or does it mean that you cannot claim Gods blessing on your football game, or blackjack hand?

They want to post this and yet no one can agree on what it means.

4.

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Six days you work and the 7th day you do not work.

The 7th day is Saturday.

Jews observe Saturday as the Sabbath.

Christians take Sunday which is the 1st day.

We want to post this?

Do we close Walmart?

 No baseball games, no football games.

No drug stores, no grocery stores.

You would not find many people who would agree with this, yet they want to post it.

Is that not hypocritical?

A manservant, and a maidservant were slaves.

The only difference is the manservant could go free after 6 years but not the maidservant.

Do we really want to post this.

5.

(Exodus 20:12  "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which The Lord your God gives you."

What if you father is Adolf Hitler.

What if your parents are Bonnie and Clyde.

What if your parents are sexual  abusers, or if they put you in a closet to starve you.

If the children's protection service brings a child into court who has been abused by his/her parents, do we really want this posting hanging in the court room?

6.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

That is Exodus 20. But what do we find in Exodus 21, the very next chapter?

Exodus 21:15. And he that hits his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
16. And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
17. And he that curses his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Exodus22:18. You shalt not allow a witch to live.
19. Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
20. He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

23. If thou afflict widows or fatherless children in any way, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry; 24. And My wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

These are equally commandments as are the first ten.

None of these take into consideration the mental state of the offender.

Thou shalt not kill except for these following reasons.

That is what the sixth commandment is actually saying.

Thou shalt not kill except for the reasons I will lay out for you.

Do we want to post this too?

7.
 

Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Pretty clear cut right?

No problem with that?

Oh yes there is.

This is from the web site about.com

People today tend define adultery as any act of sexual intercourse outside of marriage or, perhaps a bit more narrowly, any act of sexual intercourse between a married person and someone who is not their spouse.

That is appropriate in contemporary society but it isn’t not how the word has always been defined.

The ancient Hebrews in particular had a very restricted understanding of the concept and limited it to just sexual intercourse between a man and a woman who was either already married or at least betrothed.

The marital status of the man was irrelevant.

Thus, a married man was not guilty of “adultery” for having sex with an unmarried woman.

This restriction makes sense if we remember that at the time women were often treated as little more than property — a slightly higher status than the slaves but not nearly as high as that of men.

Because women were like property, having sex with a married or betrothed woman was regarded as misuse of someone else’s property (with the possible consequence of children whose actual lineage was uncertain — the main reason for treating women this way was to control their reproductive capacity and ensure the identity of the father of her children).

A married man having sex with an unmarried woman was not guilty of such a crime and thus was not committing adultery.

 If she also wasn’t a virgin, then the man wasn’t guilty of any crimes at all.

So when we post this, it only applies to women who are married.

If the man has sex with a woman who is not married then there is no adultery, and if the woman is not a virgin, there is no crime at all.

This is degrading of women and yes there is a desire to post this with government approval.

8.

Exodus 20:15  Thou shalt not steal.

I think we can probably take a pass on this one.

If we want to post "You shouldn't steal", I personally think we could all support that.

9.

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Initially one would think that this is a commandment against lying.

That is not the case.

Basically it is saying that you shall not commit perjury when in a case involving a neighbor.

Who a neighbor might be is not specified.

It does not seem to be something that would spawn objections.

10.

Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

This is from the web site about.com

My comments in Grey

Of all the commandments, the Tenth Commandment has a tendency to be the most contentious.

Depending upon how it is read, it can be the most difficult to adhere to, the most difficult to justify imposing upon others, and in some ways the least reflective of modern morality.

To begin with, what exactly is meant by “covet” here?

It’s not a word that is used very often in contemporary English so it can be difficult to be sure about how exactly we should understand it.

Should we read this as a prohibition against any sort of desire and envy, or only “inordinate” desire — and if the latter, then at what point does desire become inordinate?

I think at one time or another, we all wished we had a house as nice as someone else's, or a car, or a job.

Is desire for what others have wrong because that leads to attempts to steal the possessions of others, or is it rather than such desire is wrong in and of itself?

 An argument for the former could perhaps be made, but it would be far more difficult to defend the latter.

Despite that, this is how many have read the passage.

 Such an interpretation is typical of those groups which believe that whatever a person has is due to the work of God; thus, desiring what a person has is in effect to desire that God had acted differently and is therefore a sin.

You see how things can really get complex.

 If a religious person believes that God is in control and God guides everything, then the fact that a person who is not nice, gets nice things, becomes Gods will.

The desire to have such things is then considered as questioning God as to why that person has them and not me.

Another problem with the commandment is the inclusion of “wife” alongside material possessions.

There is no prohibition against coveting another’s “husband,” which suggests that the commandment was directed only at men.

The inclusion of women alongside material possessions suggests that women were considered little more than property, an impression that is borne out by the rest of Hebrew scriptures.

We really don't want to post this folks.

 Don't covet a neighbors, slaves, or his ass, or cattle, or his wife.

That does have a ring to it, that the wife is owned by the husband.

It is worth noting, however, that the version of the Ten Commandments found in Deuteronomy and used by both Catholics and Lutherans separates out the wife from the rest of the household:

Neither shall you covet your neighbor’s wife.

Neither shall you desire your neighbor’s house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

What they did was to take wife out of the inclusion with the donkey and the slaves, but she is still there.

There is also a problem associated with the prohibition against coveting “his manservant” and “his maidservant.”

Some modern translations word this as “servants” but that is dishonest because the original text is about owned slaves, not paid servants.

Among the Hebrews as well as other cultures of the Near East, slavery was accepted and normal.

Today it is not, but common listings of the Ten Commandments fail to take this into account.

This is a big deal.

The ten commandments has no problem with having slaves.

Manservant and maidservant were slaves.

Why would any government agency wish to post such a thing?

And so there are the 10 commandments.

For the government to simply post these as an approval of tribal law, with some serious questions which have been raised here, is certainly something that should not be desired by a free society.

PUBLIC PRAYER

Shall we have public prayer, particularly prayer in schools and at government functions?

This is something that Christians feel very strongly about.

This is what Jesus Christ said about public prayer.

Matthew 6:5. And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. I say to you, They have their reward.

Matthew 6:6. When you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father in secret; and your Father who sees in secret shall reward you openly.

There really is little more that needs to be said.

Jesus is against public prayer.

Christians disagree with Jesus and are for it.
 

ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS

BUT LEAVE THE REST OF US OUT OF IT 

We have had people in military service and in the government who are Christian Fundamentalists, and believe that God has appointed them to attack Satan.

They have used American men and women who do not necessarily share their religious views to do the attacking.

To have government, or military people, who feel that God has told them to attack, is lunacy.

THE CHILLING BIBLICAL STORY OF 

THE APOCALYPSE

Christian fundamentalists long for the day when Jesus returns.

That is the most important event in their existence.

The second coming of Jesus Christ.

But, they believe that for Jesus to come back, Armageddon must come first.

There must be a holocaust in which millions of people are killed.

Christian people highly placed either in the government or in the military, have the power to make that Biblical interpretation come true.

Would such a Christian leader believe that God has told him to launch a war in the middle East to hasten the return of Jesus Christ?

 FROM THE BOOK OF REVELATION

Revelation 16:16   And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Revelation 9:15   And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day,  and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Revelation 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke,  and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

Right after this battle in which a 3^rd on the earth are killed, Jesus returns.

Does this scripture encourage Jesus believers to push for the great war in hopes that it will be the one to bring Jesus back?

For many Christians the answer is yes, and for the rest of us, that is the main reason why religion and government must be kept far apart.

THEIR ENEMY IS SATAN

Whose enemy is Satan?

Both sides view the other side as Satan

To the Muslim side, we are the great Satan.

To the Christian side they are Satan.

So what do we have.

Large groups hating each other and thinking the other is Satan, and both of them have bombs.

Good luck to the rest of us.

You see the enormity of the problem when religious fundamentalists take over key places in government .

People interpreting scriptures which are Greek mythology literally, and setting out to encourage the final battle to take place so that Satan can be defeated.

BLAISE PASCAL

I don’t know if you have ever heard of Blaise Pascal.

He was a 17^th century French mathematicion, philosopher, and theologian.

He said.

 "Men never do evil so completely, and cheerfully, as when they do it from religious conviction."

The reason for that is not that the people in government, or the military are evil.

They're not.

They are totally loyal to a traditional belief.

They have been taught by religious fundamentalists that all Bible writing is to be taken literally.

 They have no idea that they are actually going to war over mythology, but they are.

A BATTLE FOR THE HUMAN MIND

The war of Armageddon is a battle for the human mind.

It is a clash that takes place between forces of light,  in an ageless battle between the left, and right hemispheres of the brain.

There are actually people who believe that young Americans are fighting not to defend the United States, but to hasten the return of Jesus Christ.

There are people in, and out of government, committed to a crusade that will hasten the 2nd coming.

There are military people who feel they have heard from God, and they have been chosen by God to send your kids to die in this glorious Biblical slaughter.

And that my friends is why Government and Religion don't mix ,and why the founding fathers of this country were so fearful of powerful people who claimed that God spoke to them and told them what to do at the expense of all the others who have never heard a word from this God of War.